Using tuning files for multiple pianos

Henry

Hello Pianoscopers! I’m a fairly new tuner based near London tuning in piano showrooms, music schools and homes about 20-25 per week.

I’ve been using cybertuner up to now, and it is a great high quality app and delivers good results.

The main reason for trying the trial version of pianoscope was to compare the pitch correction mode to cybertuners smart mode, and to see if pianoscope gives nicer tunings specifically in the tenor down to the bass. I’ve only tried balanced tuning style so far, but an experienced concert technician who I occasionally get coaching from is now using pianoscope and has created a custom tuning style which I will try soon.

Today I used pianoscope to coarse measure and pitch raise a 30 cents flat Bechstein K, then re-measured and fine tuned.

The result was good, I only had an 1 hour and 20 - and like to move very quickly through big pitch corrections. I prefer calculating the overpull before tuning - Cybertuner’s smart mode calculates as you go which can slow things down.

Will keep experimenting - well done to the developer it seems like a terrific app.

I love the optimise pitch feature and other quality of life features which are missing from cybertuner.

My question regards using tuning files for multiple pianos.

If I’m tuning 5 modern pianos in a day (say Kawai GX3 which a music school near me gets tuned weekly) is it recommended to make specific tuning files per instrument or could I use one file for the same model?

The scale should be identical, inharmonicity would have very very small differences on the wound strings - enough that I should make a generic tuning file for that model with close to idealised tuning curve?

That’s effectively what cybertuner does.

As I’m sure you know, when tuning in music schools time is of the essence, so it’s not always possible to measure every time.

Looking forward to more tunings with pianoscope

Thanks again and all the best

Henry

MilanDka

Hi Henry,

Generally speaking, you can use one tuning file for multiple instruments of the same model. I personally do it this way, but I work in a factory—Bechstein. So, for example, I recorded the inharmonicity for the T186 model once and have been using it multiple times since. However, when I want a more refined tuning, I record the specific instrument again. There are small differences in inharmonicity, but they do exist. And for better tuning, you will use your ear anyway.

Inharmonicity is significantly influenced not only by the specific model and strings but also by intonation and the quality/defects of wound strings. That’s actually my main job at the factory—intonation and tuning. From my own experience, I know that a rounder, thicker, darker bass tone is tuned lower than a sharp and narrow one.

However, I wouldn’t do it this way in a music school. Spending two minutes of your time is definitely worth a better result. And if you precisely define the opus number, classroom number, etc., in your tuning file to ensure 100% identification of a specific piano, the result will simply be better. I do it the same way—one music school with, say, 30 instruments.

Henry

Thanks so much for your reply, that’s really helpful.
Yes, once I get into a rhythm with the app you’re right, spending 2 mins per instrument is nothing in the grand scheme of things if the tuning is better.
I’m really looking forward to tuning more with it, it’s amazing how used to the visual display you get with respective apps but I’m already becoming comfortable with this one.
I wonder if this has been suggested already but what would people think about a ‘blush’ feature on either the pitch indicator or strobe?
Cybertuner’s rotating spinner ‘blushes’ (fills with colour) when arriving at pitch - works quite nicely especially when the phone is at the other end of the piano and you can glance and confirm, and I think the strobes on tunelab do something similar. Is there a setting I’ve missed which allows this?

Thank you to Mr Illenberger and all those who’ve helped develop this app. Quite extraordinary!

Hello to you in the Bechstein factory, they’ve recently opened Bechstein Hall in wigmore street London, and I was chatting to the sales team. Lovely pianos - I hope to see them in more homes and venues. Thanks for your hard work over in Germany!

MilanDka

Hi Henry,

You wrote that you usually place your phone on the other side of the instrument. That’s not a good approach because, especially in the higher tones, pitch detection becomes less accurate. It’s always better to keep the phone as close as possible to the area you are tuning. I believe that’s why Pianoscope and other ETDs indicate that the pitch is higher. When I move the phone closer, I end up tuning too low.

Another thing—if you’re using the Breeze function, false tones are detected less effectively.

Thanks for the greetings to Bechstein, but I don’t work in Germany; I’m based in the Czech Republic. The company has two factories (actually more, but that’s not important). Bechstein instruments are produced in Germany, while Hoffmann instruments are made in the Czech Republic. Both centers collaborate closely. The acoustic elements are manufactured in Germany, while cabinets, strings, cast-iron frames, etc., are made in the Czech Republic.

Regarding the pitch indicator turning red—it’s entirely up to Frank whether he decides to implement such a request in Pianoscope. However, this app handles its display differently than Cybertuner. More importantly, you have a strobe tuner that you can adjust to your needs.

LINK

Have a great day in London!

Henry

MilanDka
Again thanks for the useful tips, yes that makes sense about the phone placement I do tend to move it closer for the top treble but will be mindful about phone position during the tuning.

Hello to you in the Czech Republic! One school I tune at has a lot of Hoffman T128s and they are some of the happiest most stable pianos I get to tune there. Terrific!

Yes the strobe feature is great and I can imagine getting quite comfortable with it.

All the best
Henry

Frank Illenberger

Henry, thank you for the feedback on your work with pianoscope.
If you know that instruments from a certain manufacturer are pretty consistent in their scaling and inharmonicity, you can surely re-use tuning documents. But for this, their pitch has to be in a similar range. For example, if one is tuned at a concert pitch of 443Hz and the other at 438Hz, the will have different inharmonicities across the scale even though they are the same model.
If you are tuning the same instruments in a school over and over again, the time to measure them individually can pay off over the long run.

Regarding the blush feature: I already have it on my feature list for future updates. With the current version you can fake a blush, if you don't make use of the strobe for regular tuning: Simply set the threshold for showing the strobe to a value close to zero Cents, and then the strobe will only fade in once you are close to the tuning target. This can work like a poor man's blush .

Henry

Frank Illenberger
That’s good to know, thanks for the tip…
I will experiment with the indicator setting as you suggested
It’s blowing my mind a bit how many features have been implemented in an app which is only a few years old.
Very much appreciated! Looking forward to sharing my experiences with this forum nice to reach out to technicians in other parts of the world…
All the best
Henry

Henry

Frank Illenberger
Setting the strobe threshold to 0.2 helped a lot today, a little visual feedback that I’m near. Thanks!

I’ve also found that having range to 10c and linear resolution mode makes the indicator a little more predictable. Perhaps loosing a microscopic amount of accuracy around 0c but it made the tuning process smoother for me.

Thanks for including so much customisation