New user/tuner

JBMpls

I am a career musician and have been responsible for maintaining many pianos over the years. I’ve known great technicians and have watched the tuning and repair process numerous times, but this is my first attempt at tuning a piano myself.

I’ve purchased and installed the standard version of pianoscope and begun the process of evaluating enharmonicity. This piano is my own personal instrument, but it hasn’t been tuned for some time. I’m tuning to 440hz.

The lowest octave is quite low, but the midrange is remarkably close. However, when I get into the higher register, it’s far enough off that the app is misidentifying most notes.

I’m wondering if I should start by raising the upper octaves enough that the notes can at least be identified correctly. Is there a better way to proceed?

Appreciate any assistance. Thank you!

Frank Illenberger

JBMpls If notes a strongly out of tune in the high treble you should:

Switch the automatic key detection mode in pianoscope to "off" and manually select the notes on the on-screen keyboard.
Keep your device close to the tuned note's strings
If you are on a grand, you can put a piece of cloth on the undamped or duplex strings to dampen resonances

KrisKlein

Hello,

For a piano that’s significantly out of tune, I’d recommend starting with the Pitch Raise function to establish a rough overall pitch before moving into fine tuning. As a general rule, whenever I encounter a piano that’s more than 5 cents off from concert pitch — whether flat or sharp — I’ll complete an initial coarse tuning pass followed by a second pass for fine tuning. This two-step process typically takes around 1½ hours in total.

Regarding PianoScope’s difficulty reading the upper register, it’s possible that the pitch is extremely flat in that range, which can sometimes interfere with accurate note detection. I’ll be honest — that’s not something I’ve personally encountered with PianoScope before, even on instruments that were over 100 cents flat.

Good luck with your tuning journey!

JBMpls

Thanks so much for your response!

I believe that pitch raise is a feature in the pro edition, correct?

And, yes, those notes are very flat and the app identifies them as a half step lower.

KrisKlein

You are very welcome.

I do believe the pitch raise feature is available exclusively in the Pro version. However, if the treble section is at least a half step flat, there is a practical workaround — simply use the standard tuning mode and overpull each note approximately 10 cents sharp. While this method won't be quite as precise, it should allow you to bring the piano back to concert pitch effectively. From there, you can complete the process with a fine-tuning pass to dial everything in.

JBMpls

And as a general rule, tune low to high?

Thanks again!

KrisKlein

Spot on!

JBMpls

Frank Illenberger

I’m obviously a tuning neophyte and I appreciate your patience.

I assume that mutes could be used on the duplex strings to accomplish the same thing?

Also, I recall having seen a piece of felt maybe(?) threaded through strings while watching other tuners work. Guessing this might approximate for an upright what you’re describing?

MilanDka

In pitch raise mode, it is possible to select which notes the application measures. I usually use A minor as the default. Then it doesn’t matter how much the individual notes are out of tune — even if, for example, A6 is flat by 300 cents, the application correctly detects that it is A6 because that note is active. After measuring, the application automatically switches to the next note. It then calculates the tuning curve and determines how much each individual note/register needs to be overpulled.

JBMpls

MilanDka

Thanks. I’ll be using the standard version for awhile, though.

MilanDka

JBMpls If you are using only the standard version, then the general rule applies: the flatter the note is, the more you should tune it sharp by half of that amount. For example, if a note is flat by 50 cents, tune it 25 cents higher. Ideally, measure several notes across the entire register and at least estimate the average in your head. Then raise the whole register by half of that average.

JBMpls

The piano I’m tuning is a Yamaha WX-7 which was built in about 1985. It was their top-of-line upright at 52” and has X cross bracing on the back. I’ve spoken with a number of tuners who have never seen one.

I began tuning the instrument last evening. I’m using a hammer that I bought many years ago for onsite adjust of one or two notes prior to performances by my ensemble. It has a wooden handle 11-1/2” long and the socket has the star/four-square pattern. There is no indication of the socket size #.

I’m initially struck by how difficult it is to get these low strings to lock in. There’s a slight bit of play between the socket and the pins. Also, I can imagine that it would be easier to achieve better accuracy with a longer hammer. Of course, I’m aware that a large part of it probably has to do with my lack of technique. And, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, the piano has not been touched for a long time.

I’m not prepared to spend a ridiculous amount of money on a different tuning hammer at this point. However, I’d sure appreciate any observations that might be helpful. Thank you.

Rick

You don’t want a longer lever. It comes with practice. I use a 10” on everything now but used to use an 8” on grands. The tip should fit properly on the pin and be just above the coil with very little “slop”.

JBMpls

Thanks, Rick. Do Yamahas have consistent pin size across all models?

Rick

I w

JBMpls I would say yes. My tip size for Yamahas is a Jahn number 2 on a Supply 88 Kestrel lever. I should add, the longer the lever the farther one is from the pin and the feeling for what the pin is doing.

JBMpls

As I continue to plod my way through this first tuning, I am struck by several things.

First, those of you who are experienced/pros and can tune piano in a couple of hours or less, seems to me, at this point, unachievable. I think I just spent an hour on a single octave.

I’m curious about the way the app is updating as I work on a single string. There is the big red text indicating the key, i.e., A3. Below that appears a numeral showing how flat or sharp the string is from the target, i.e., +0.56. This does not update as I continue to try and bring the string into tune.

The frequency also appears below that, albeit intermittently. I’m unclear about why this shows up sometimes but usually does not.

Then there is the matter of the physical/mechanical process of manipulating the tuning pegs. Some pegs are ‘stickier’ than others. Is it helpful to try and loosen those up a bit, or ist das verboten? (I do not speak German other than the swear words my mother and grandfather would occasionally send in my direction.)

One thing of which I am certain is that I need a hammer with a tip that fits more tightly.

Patrick

JBMpls Newbie here also. Just came to say “I feel you.” 😂

Frank Illenberger

JBMpls The number shown beneath the large red key name indicates the calculated stretch for that note. Pianoscope determines this value for each note during the measurement of inharmonicities. It remains fixed throughout the tuning process and serves as an offset from a purely harmonic tuning. This adjustment compensates for the inharmonicity of the partials in piano strings.

The frequency shown below the red indicator line is the frequency of the first partial of the currently sounding note. By default it is only shown for A4. You can change this in the settings.

The user manual contains a description of the parts of the tuning screen.

The technique of turning tuning pins needs practice, especially if you want your tuning to be stable. I've written a short article about tuning stability in the pianoscope FAQ

If a tuning pin is hard to move, it can be beneficial to turn it a bit more. As a beginner you should do this only to the flat side to prevent string damage by over tightening a string.