Pitch raise

Rick

I had a problem with a pitch raise on a Yamaha U3. It was about 60¢ flat and after the first pass after ending the pitch raise mode the piano was very sharp in the top two sections, nearly 10¢. Normally when I do a pitch raise the tuning is very close and minimal work is required for the fine tuning. Perhaps the algorithm for that much of a pitch raise needs correction.

Frank Illenberger

Very interesting. Do you know if there is something special about the plate of the U3? If you still have the tuning document, I could have a look at the initial pitch mesurements.

Rick

Have sent file to you.

MilanDka

I'll join you. I noticed this one too. If the piano is too flat, the Pitch race is then too sharp in the high part. E.g. the piano is -40 cents and after tuning the discant is +10, sometimes 15-20 cents sharp.

Rick

I pitch raised a Yamaha C3 X today about 40¢ and it worked well, not too sharp at the top.

Frank Illenberger

Rick Thanks for the feedback. This is good to know.

Rick

Another pitch raise question:
I did a pitch raise on a new Kawai GX-7. After doing the inharmonicity measuring I realised it needed a small pitch raise. When viewing the pitch raise curve there were 2 notes that were about 30¢ flat. I of course remeasured them and they were just a little flat like the others. Why was this?
Many thanks

Frank Illenberger

Rick This sounds strange indeed. Was there any loud background noise while you performed the measurement?

Rick

Perhaps, I was in a piano showroom with some extraneous sounds. Would that have affected the inharmonicity measurements?

Frank Illenberger

Rick In principle yes, but always take a quick look at the curves and the IH outlier warnings and if the values look plausible then you are safe. The same goes for the pitch measurements. If the whole piano is 20 cents flat and only a couple of notes are more off, then you should get suspicious and re-measure them.

MarkF

Hello Everybody.
I recently worked with a Bosendorfer model 225-711 grand piano with extended bass to F0. I had to perform Pitch Raise.
I had some issues when I tried to install Settings for Pitch Raise. The program did not find B3 for the First Treble Strut.
Pianoscope did not recognise B3 because it does not exist in the settings, the first note that the program knows is D4. Frank, could you please add notes below D4 in order to have B3 there for First Treble Strut?

Frank Illenberger

MarkF Hello Mark, the Bösendorfer 225 Imperial has four plate struts, but pianoscope only needs to know the position of the two struts in the treble. You don't need to enter the location of the struts in the bass or tenor.

MarkF

Hello Frank, thank you for the information!

MarkF

Hi Frank, suggesting few improvements.

I like working in Dark mode on my iPad. When working in Pitch Mode, it's sometimes unclear which mode you're in, especially if you didn't turn it off in the previous session. Is there a way to highlight this mode? For example, by changing the background color or making the white keys gray, etc.
In Pitch Raise mode, I use the Overpull Target → At Zero setting. It would be great if it was possible to replace the existing numbers under the note name (above the indicator) with the numerical value that is recommended by Pianoscope for correcting each specific note. If I have this information, before starting the work, I could check the numerical values in different octaves and, if necessary, make certain changes (for example, increase or decrease the Stretch) and thus achieve the desired result faster.
Is it possible to create a Pitch Raise icon on the top panel? Then this mode could be turned on and off with a single action (the same way the Freeze button ‘Snowflake’ works)
Thanks

Frank Illenberger

MarkF

Thank you for the feedback. Here are my thoughts on your suggestions:

I will think of something to make it more apparent that you are in pitch raise mode. In version 1, I used to show this in the document title but later I removed this. Perhaps I should put it back in.
In the current version, when using the Overpull Target → At Zero setting, you can see the amount of overpull by looking at the small triangles which indicate the original target pitch. You can step through the scale by using the on-screen keyboard, or semitone wise by tapping on the sides of the tuning scale. I think the perfect solution for your use case would be to offer an overpull chart which graphically shows how much pianscope wants to overpull. I will consider this for a future update.
You can already add a "Pitch Raise" button to the toolbar via the "Customize Toolbar" item in the main menu.

Rick

You can put the pitch raise icon top.

MarkF

Thank you, Frank, for constantly improving our beloved Pianoscope.

Tworth

Have used the pitch raise a couple of times and been happy with results. Always really close and quick to tune afterwards. This week I had a bad piano that was 100 cents flat in places. I went through the pitch raise and after I was through, went into a standard tuning and found that most of the piano was still about 15 cents flat. So the pitch raise didn't quite get me all the way up to 440.
What did I do wrong? Something in settings maybe?
And, on another note I watched someone do a pitch raise on tunelab and they didn't have to use mutes. They were using the waveform peaks as a guide and when they struck the string they could pull each string up to pitch because they can see each string represented by the peaks. Is there a way to do this on pianoscope? I have to use mutes when pitch raising, anyone else do it differently?

Thanks in advance - Love the program.
Rob T.

Frank Illenberger

Tworth Thank you for the feedback. I am glad, that pitch raising with pianoscope is usually working fine for you. In general. the calculation of overpulls is not an exact science that works for all instruments exactly the same way. But resulting in being 15 cents flat overall is unusual. Was there something special about the instrument?

The mute-less pitch-raise feature you are requesting is a quite popular request and I am currently investigating adding it to pianoscope.

Tworth

Frank Illenberger Ok, thats what I was thinking, could it be that the standard/default settings for overpull where not enough for such a flat piano? Maybe I need a refresher on overpull settings for a piano thats 50-100c flat. I don't come across them often but have of course. Usually if they are that bad I just float them where they are but the client wanted to play with another musician.
The piano was a dog! 0-1st octave was unreadable for inharmonicity measurement. Had to tune it up just to get a reading.. etc.. top octaves problems as well. Middle was ok but bottom and top where wacked. Probably an anomaly. Let me know about the overpull. Thank you! - RT