Beta test of pianoscope v2.0

Frank Illenberger

Rick All styles in pianoscope are meant to automatically adjust themselves to an individual instrument. That is the whole point of pianoscope's tuning curve algorithm. The styles in other apps like TuneLab, Verituner or PiaTune use a fixed mix of beat rates for different ranges. But a style defined in such a way will only lead to satisfying results for instruments of not too different sizes (meaning not too different bass inharmonicity). The tuning curve algorithm in pianoscope does two things: It measures how strong the most important tuning intervals are for a given instrument and adjusts the weighting accordingly. And it analyzes whether a tuning interval - like for example 10:5 octaves or 9:3 twelfths - can ever achieve a low beat rate for a given instrument. And if not, it automatically strongly reduces their weights and instead prefers the other tuning intervals tries to lower their beat rates.
So the whole concept is that you only have to decide what the tuning should sound like: Do you for prefer pure twelfths or should the octaves be closer to pure? Then you pick the style accordingly and the rest should happen automatically.
The v1 tuning curve algorithm was not perfect in this regard. The V2 algorithm should perform much better, especially in the bass. I am looking forward to your feedback.

Rick

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply. I was hoping that is what you were going to say!

MilanDka

Hi, Frank,
Also, thank you for explaining how the pianoscope works in the bass section of the pianos.

Btw: Did you try to analyze the last file I sent you? I listened to that file and from the recording it's not that bad. But as I wrote, I had to put the monochorres a lot lower on the ear. And you can hear it in the recording. It's just clean. If I play the tones on my macbook and try to measure them with a tuner, it doesn't even register those tones to see how much lower I had to put the tones.
Hopefully I'll get around to uploading little piano models for you soon.

Have a nice evening
Milan

MilanDka

Hello Frank,
Would it be possible to set the tuner to only give the A0 tone 6 cents down from the balanced style with the V2 calculation? Only this one tone bothers me a bit.
Or please see if there is some error in the calculation for this tone and where it gets the reference tone from.

Thank you
Milan

Frank Illenberger

MilanDka Hello Milan, thanks for the feedback. About which instrument are you talking? And which intervals are bothering you with A0? I will look into it.

MilanDka

Hello Frank
These are T177 and T186. Interval A0-C#3 or A0-C#4. Even a pure octave is not pure A0-A1

MilanDka

Hello, Frank,
About the tuning: do you know the name Mark Cerisano?
Website: HERE

Then I guess some people will understand what an experienced tuner listens to when tuning. I myself found out about him yesterday. But basically everything he lists makes a huge amount of sense, and he more or less uses it when tuning, we just couldn't describe it.
I think it could be strongly inspiring for you to develop a V3 tuning curve.
Yours sincerely to Frankfurt
Milan

Frank Illenberger

MilanDka Thanks for the hint. Yes, I know Mark. I talked to him twice and studied his course about tuning stability. He is a nice guy.

MilanDka

And how does Pianoscope behave in the calculation? Does it also calculate with other partial tones? How would the tuning in the bass look like if you used its interval ratios?
I don't really know anything about it. I'm just asking and trying to find a way to calculate a perfect tuning curve. 😉
It's not only about bass but also about discant.

MilanDka

Hello Frank
Anything new in the latest Beta? Looks like it's the RC version? Did you look at the warning about the change of the tuning curve from V1 to V2?
Have a nice evening.
Milan

Frank Illenberger

MilanDka Hello Milan, I am currently a bit short on time. The RC will still take some time as I am not yet fully satisfied with the tuning curves on some uprights. I have not forgotten your warning suggestion.

MilanDka

Hello, Frank,
does the app change the day/night theme even when it's on? Now if I want to change the theme to light after sunrise, I have to turn the device off/on.
Milan

Frank Illenberger

MilanDka Hello Milan, this is a system thing which is out of control of pianoscope. When you open the appearance options in the system settings for Display & Brightness, it says that on iPhones, the automatic change can be delayed until the screen is not used.

Rick

I’ve been using the pitch optimisation function a lot lately. Two things:

I think the bass pitch is weighted a bit too much.
When using the function for a new tuning it asks to use existing measurements but doesn’t include the top octave as it does for a saved tuning.

Frank Illenberger

Rick Hey Rick, thanks for testing it.

I am currently weighting all notes equally. Do you think it makes sense to weight the bass less because it has less strings to be moved?
This sounds like a bug. I will look into it.

Rick

Yes, I think the bass has less influence on the overall pitch. Just my thinking. Will there be another beta soon? This one stops in two days.
Keep up the good work👍

Frank Illenberger

Rick Yes, I will post a new beta tomorrow.

AlexHutor

Hello Frank! About the pitch optimization function. I think the last thing I want to do is change the pitch of the bass strings. In the bass, we have to work harder for the same change than in the treble section. Therefore, it is better to change the bass less.

Frank Illenberger

So to recap: Alex wants to weigh the bass stronger in the calculation (to result in less needed pitch change) and Rick wants to weigh it less. So this looks like we need a setting here. What do you think?

Rick

Perhaps I’m wrong?? I never feel the bass strings have as much to do with the rest of the piano.

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